June 11, 2007 1:01 PM PDT
Apple invites Windows users on Safari
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After bringing iTunes over to Windows, the Mac maker announced on Monday that it is also making its Safari Web browser available for users of Microsoft's operating system. The company released a "public beta" version of Safari 3.0 that runs on Windows XP and Windows Vista, as well as on Mac OS X Tiger.
When Apple first announced plans to bring iTunes to Windows PCs in October 2003, CEO Steve Jobs characterized the move as hell freezing over. These days, though, Apple does much of its work with the Windows world in mind.
Its iPod is used by far more Windows users than Mac users, and its iTunes media player software has been downloaded more than 500 million times by Windows users, Jobs said in his keynote speech on Monday at the Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco.
But the main impetus for bringing Safari to Windows may be the fact that Apple is also pitching Safari and Web-based applications as the way to write programs that run on the iPhone. So given that it is already pouring resources into the browser, trying to get more return on that investment makes sense, analysts said.
Gartner analyst Mike McGuire said the decision to move Safari to Windows is about the iPhone "as much as anything."
McGuire said Safari has some interesting features but added that it is not clear whether that will get it a spot in the Windows Start menu of most PC users.
"You've got to wonder how much people are willing to be promiscuous with the number of browsers they run," McGuire said.
In addition to Microsoft's dominant Internet Explorer browser, Apple also finds itself competing against Mozilla's open-source Firefox browser.
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It was probably compiled on the same machine. Nice easy clean install.
The Bad: It is ugly as hell, and you can not do anything about it. You can not change the skins. No add-on support. It doesn't default to a home button and status bar(I like to see where a link is going before I click on it). No support for the mouse wheel click scroll. The font rendering is not good. It is not even close to IE. It looks like it bolds everything and tries to round it to a point where there is almost no space between the letters.
As for speed, I don't really notice much difference in speed between browsers running from similar broadband connections, though as always Firefox gets hung up by sites optimized for Microsoft's substandard web scripting practices. Safari may suffer a little from this, so we'll see how it fares.
It is a clever practice by Apple to offer up free bits to Windows users, but to make an impression they can take to the bank it may be necessary to offer up some really nifty app like iphoto rather than one of their lamers like Safari...
But yeah, I really don't see this going anywhere. We'll just have to wait and see, though, won't we?
Safari for Windows, though, seems more for Mac users who want to run Safari on their Windows side.
I'll stick to IE in Windows, though...
going nowhere but up from here.
Maybe you should stick to screaming at Mac users that they should
waste their time with AV software. At least you can make that seem
reasonable.
great browser. Super quick...
I've got Firefox, too, but I rarely use it, if at all...
It's doesn't hold a candle to Safari.
The only Firefox users with Macs that I know of, are ex-PC users
who use what they're comfortable with, and admit to me they
haven't even tried Safari.
compatibility issues with Safari (<3 a month probably) and it
starts much quicker than Firefox does and loads pages quickly.
If I do have to use a different browser I use Camino, which isn't
as bloated as Firefox and does the same thing (without all the
fancy plugins). Most Mac users probably do use Safari, just as
most Windows users probably use Internet Explorer.
As an aside, for the person that claimed that Safari is tied into
OS X, it isn't. You can delete Safari just as you can any other
application and your OS isn't going to suffer. We aren't back with
Windows 98 here.
IE - 78%
Firefox - 15%
Safari - 5%
Since Safari is only available on the Mac, and Mac only holds
about a 5% overall market share, that means that pretty much
the entire Mac base uses Safari most of the time.
But what can I say - Just Vegaman spewing more hot air and
hatred for all thing Apple. ;-)
so, are you always this full of it?
there is a clear winner. I doubt there ever will be a
generic clear winner, even if you include IE in the
mix.
The reason why people (general users) choose one
browser over the other, is how it affects them. If you
tend to have your kids, or yourself, use sites that are IE specific,
then that will be your browser of choice.
However,
your statement that even Mac users prefer browsers, other
than Safari could not be further from the truth. Safari, on
OXS is a great experience, and most Mac users tend to not really
care too much about the same things as Windows users do. It
is just different.
I did download Safari, and ran it under XP,
using a Dell Inspiron 6000 with 512k. When compared to IE, it
is a faster browser, and far more compliant to standards,
than IE. However, I did not notice much of a speed increase
when compared to FireFox, until some of the information was
cached. But then, it wasn't enough to use that as a justification
for switching. Yes, I know it is a beta, and yes, I am
surprised Apple released an unfinished version of Safari for
Windows.
Bottom-line, as long as there are holes in IE,
knowledgable users will tend to avoid it for general
browsing, but will always use IE, if they need to use IE
for IE specific sites. Mozilla/FireFox users, will probably not
switch, unless Apple delivers something that satisfies their
reasons for using FireFox in the first place. Safari users, will
just keep using Safari. And if they are like me, Safari 95% of the
time, Mozilla 4.5%, and 0.5% IE usage.
windows machine ( and therefore iTunes ) has already used
Safari's rendering engine (Webkit) to check out the iTunes music
store. If that's true then Safari the browser is mostly there
anyway. Maybe Apple will just include the two together. Or
maybe make Safari a requirement to run iTunes, just like
Quicktime is a requirement. Whatever the case, they definitely
have a way to get users to download Safari onto Windows. I for
one hope that a lot of users start using it, and then pressure
Apple to contribute back to the Konquerer open source project
that they started from in the first place
I suppose this is some way to get Windows users hooked on the Safari interface to ease migration over to OSX?
A disappointment in general.
While the anti-aliasing effect and blue box high-lighting effect are all cool.
There are few things clearly missing / screwed up, after using for just 30 mins:
(a) No clear highlight between HTTP and HTTPS ... worse
(b) The tab background is dark gray ... making the black characters on the tab difficult to read
(c) Some well-known advanced AJAX sites do not work. (english content)
Gmail works, while Yahoo new email does not.
(d) Some well-known internationalized sites do not work.
http://news.google.com/news?ned=h
Google Hong Kong news works.
http://hk.news.yahoo.com/
Yahoo Hong Kong news does not.
Of course, either Firefox or IE has these problems.
It makes you wonder why Apple does not just branch off from Firefox and create a Mac specific version of Firefox as the next version of Safari.
Mozilla Public License (MPL) terms issue ?
And to top it off, it crashed within 10 minutes.
Further, the text, at its default setting, looks "fuzzy," like the ClearType effect (though it appears you can control this via preferences).
Spoke to a couple of Mac people at work who tell me that they don't use Safari ... they use Firefox. Safari doesn't have very many plug-ins and when they compared the two, Firefox won in most ways. Looking at the Vista version, it looks nice, has a couple of fancy Mac ways of building dialog boxes which is fun to see in Windows, but once the novelty of running a Mac app on the PC ends (probably by tomorrow), I will return to Firefox 2.0 as my primary browser.
One last thing. Most Windows users like and use IE. The average user has little incentive and little interest in switching to even a superior browser like Firefox. IE does the job for 90+% of the population. So I doubt that Safari will be like the iPod (as Jobs made reference to) and grow in the Windows market. The iPod worked in Windows because it offered a superior portable music experience against scattered competition. Safari must battle IE7, which, to most, works just fine.
And CONTROL-SHIFT-[ and CONTROL-SHIFT-] is a really stupid way to switch tabs. Obviously not the work of someone who's used to using the keyboard.
And it seems to have problems with NEWS.COM. Half the homepage is missing, until I mouse over and then the content starts appearing like magic.
I'll try it some more tomorrow at work, but so far I see no compelling reason to give it more than a week before uninstalling.
Because with the high speed connection at home and in the office, I don't think a slight speed increase is anything to get too thrilled over -- because the weird keyboard shortcuts and hard to read interface will actually cost me time.
Let us not forget that Apple didn't release the original iPod for Windows because it seriously thought it would be the catalyst to mass switch from Windows to Apple.
It wasn't until it was blatantly obvious that people weren't going to switch but still wanted an iPod and multiple third party programs popped up to support the then Mac only iPod on Windows.
speed increase over IE, a small one over FireFox. Only on a
couple of sites have I seen it actually blow away FireFox, eBay
was one of them. Most of the time, Safari is not so much faster
than FireFox that I'd want to switch. Under OSX I
exclusively use Safari.
Bookmarks are actually easier
to deal with. However, it is different, and that
difference can easily throw someone for a loop. For example,
try using the bookmark icon, to the left of the
bookmarks.
Safari supports plug-ins. Plug-ins are provided
by vendors. So there is really not much to discuss there,
except I have yet to see someone name an
actual plug-in, not in Safari. I do know Flash is there, and of
course QuickTime. Remember, this browser does not have an
old style UI for managine MIME types. They have been taking a
different approach for quite sometime. That does not mean
there is no, or limited plug-in support, it is not
true.
This, being a beta, is better than I expected. But I
like my coffee black, which means I will keep using FireFox (for
now) as my predominant Windows browser. But it is
fun playing with Safari on Windows.
850MHz Laptop and Safari for Win is pretty impressive and good
crispy fast rendering. It is even better than the current Safari on my
Mac. IE is already gone to trash and Firefox is waiting to be
trashed.
Safari is the equivalent of something in between IE 6 & 7.
Firefox, IE7, and Opera are have better features and work very well. Unless Apple can bring something more to the table with Safari it will not be a success.
iTunes was successful because of its tight integration with the iPod. If there was no iPod and Apple released iTunes for Windows, I highly doubt iTunes would have been successful (with its forced Quicktime install and memory and CPU hogging code).
Also, Safari with its lack of features probably does run faster on a 7 year old computer than browsers designed with more features that were not designed with a P III/256MB RAM in mind.
we might think.
Did you see "Flower Cow"? What is the piece of software from
Apple that Windows Users have the most? Get it?!
Cover Flow is iTunes (or its interface) and iTunes downloads
count by millions a year, and most of them are the windows
version of it.
People have being seduced by the easy of use of this program,
and now Apple have implemented in the finder.As a reference
here:
When windows 98 debuted, it was more like a browser than an
actual OS, and many people thought it was the best windows
ever because they where so used to use a browser.
My guess is that iTunes & Safari are part of Apple strategy to
gain terrain over Microsoft. Even thought, I do not see clearly yet
how Safari can help, I think we are witnessing a new battle that
we dont really know is there and is already half the way. As other
posters have had said, we will have to wait and see.
This is the sole reason they got their ass kicked in the computer market. If I could load OSX on any setup and it was an option I had to chose between Windows and Linux, there would be many many cases I would buy OSX for some of my hardware.
Until Apple makes some really and I mean REALLY significant market share gains, you just aren't going to see it moving into corporate America and taking over in business applications.
People are always comparing Apple to Microsoft and it really is an Apples to Oranges (pardon the pun) comparison. Apple's primary goal is to sell hardware while Microsoft's primary goal is to sell OS software to hardware manufacturers. Microsoft wants to be the common interface that all systems developers choose to build their GUI around. Apple wants to be the premium interface that drives the "experience connoisseurs" to buy their hardware. They are totally different goals.
- DO NOT USE iTUNES OR SAFARI ON YOUR WINDOWS VISTA OR WINDOWS XP COMPUTER
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by Rover8
June 16, 2007 6:12 PM PDT
- DO NOT download or use APPLE's ITUNES, SAFARI OR QUICKTIME FOR WINDOWS VISTA OR WINDOWS XP!
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Reply to this comment
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- Ok. Rover8, ARE U TRYING 2 MISLEAD PEOPLE? ITUNES DOESN'T CONTAIN SPYWARE!
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by milosivanovic
July 29, 2007 4:23 AM PDT
- Okay. First of all you have made me very angry, Rover8. Fellow users, please don't be fooled by this user.
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See all 53 Comments >>The saying "There is No Such Thing as a Free Lunch" couldn't be more true in the case of iTunes/Quicktime from Apple Inc.
iTunes & Quicktime for Windows contains Spyware -- software used to track usage of your computer and alter its operation. In addition, running these programs on Windows Vista can often crash your computer.
Personal information is transfered by Quicktime/iTunes, without your knowledge, to Apple computer, and its marketing partners, over the Internet.
IF YOU ALREADY HAVE iTUNES OR QUICKTIME INSTALLED ON YOUR NEW DESKTOP COMPUTER OR LAPTOP YOU CAN REMOVE IT BY GOING TO THE "PROGRAMS AND FEATURES" CONTROL PANEL (in VISTA), OR IF YOU ARE USING XP, BY GOING TO THE "ADD/REMOVE SOFTWARE" CONTROL PANEL.
How Apple's spywhere scheme works:
Since at least the year 2000, the Quicktime (and now iTunes) installer from Apple installed several programs, without the user's permission or knowledge, which permanently altered the user's Windows system.
In my case, I tried removing some of the components, but still, each time I visit ANY website that has Quicktime support, something installed by iTunes causes a couple of invisible background processes (qttask.exe and ituneshelper.exe) to get installed in my computer's Startup Programs list and launched. The claim for "ituneshelper.exe" is that it "required" for burning CD's, but it does not make sense why you need an INVISIBLE BACKGROUND PROGRAM running on your system 24 hours a day just so you can burn CD's once in a while. No other CD burning software has such a requirement.
The other program "qttask.exe" is also spyware with apparently no other purpose.
WHEN THESE PROGRAMS AUTOMATICALLY CONNECT TO APPLE'S SERVERS, BEHIND YOUR BACK, APPLE USES YOUR IP ADDERSS, AND OTHER INFORMATION TRANSFERRED TO APPLE FROM YOUR COMPUTER, TO PERSONALLY IDENTIFY AND TRACK YOU ON THE INTERNET FOR MARKETING (AND OTHER) PURPOSES.
APPLE INC. HAS A HISTORY OF SUCH ACTIVITIES AS WELL AS CASES WHERE REGULAR EMPLOYEES USED THE INFORMATION GATHERED FROM MILLIONS OF COMPUTER USERS TO STALK PEOPLE.
I have since switched to alternatives (see below), but I was still stuck with Apple's spyware for weeks before I was able to remove it.
ALTERNATIVES TO APPLE'S QUICKTIME/ITUNES SPYWARE
=================================
IF YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED TO PLAY QUICKTIME (AND OTHER TYPES) OF MOVIES, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD "VIDEOLAN" FROM http://www.videolan.org/
VIDEOLAN PLAYS QUICKTIME AND MOST OTHER FORMATS IN EXISTANCE INCLUDING DVD, MPEG ETC.
As far as music downloading service goes, there are many many alternatives including MusicMatch.com, Rahpsody.com, etc...
Apple DOES NOT include any spyware or adware in their software.
Starting from your first 'burst of BEWAREness' -->
"ituneshelper.exe" is a process that Apple created that will automatically start iTunes when you connect your iPod. Well, isn't that convenient. SO THEREFORE, IT'S NOT THAT MUDDLE OF JUNK YOU SAID IT WAS!
Now your second 'burst of BEWAREness' -->
"qttask.exe" is just QuickTime in general. It's in your taskbar unless you chose in the preferences that QuickTime should not be shown n the taskbar - It's absolutely NOTHING YOU HAD SCREAMED OUT IT WAS.
Go ahead and close it in the taskbar, see what happens to the process. IT GETS TERMINATED. WELL DUH. YOU JUST CLOSED QUICKTIME!
It starts with Windows so when you want to view a QuickTime movie, QuickTime has already started and is ready to roll. Again, your warning crap isn't true.
Then, when you said that it installs it in the "background". Uhm... NO. Windows Vista won't install anything by itself. You always have to execute it. For example, if you were to start the iTunesSetup.exe and start installing, you would, throughout the installation get little warnings that ask you wether you want to continue installing this 'other' peice of software that's part of the installation; and it nicely tells you exactly what it is in the description.
Of course, you would click "Continue" if you want iTunes to work properly, because all these 'other peices of software' are is QuickTime (which is necessary to run iTunes for various understandable reasons) in little different setups + iTunesHelper.exe for your iPod to quickstart iTunes when it gets plugged into the computer, like I nicely desribed above.
Oh it looks like I proved you incorrect, and silly... Again.
So there you go. Apple does NOT include ANY sort of Adware, Spyware or whatever you want to call it.
If, by any slight chance, you don't believe me, scroll up and read it all over again, and then call Apple and ask them if they do have Spyware or not. Let's see if they tell you anything new.