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August 1, 2005 12:28 PM PDT
Next Explorer to fail Acid test
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In its browser blog, Microsoft acknowledged that IE 7 would not pass the Web Standards Project's Acid2 test, which examines a browser's support for W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) recommendations including CSS1 (Cascading Style Sheets), HTML4 and PNG (Portable Network Graphics).
"We will not pass this test when IE7 ships," Chris Wilson, lead program manager for the Web platform in IE, wrote in the IE blog. "We fully recognize that IE is behind the game today in CSS support. We've dug through the Acid2 test and analyzed IE's problems with the test in some great detail, and we've made sure the bugs and features are on our list--however, there are some fairly large and difficult features to implement, and they will not all sort to the top of the stack in IE7."
Standards advocates and Web developers have criticized Microsoft for letting Internet Explorer go without a significant upgrade for years. This spring it became clear that Microsoft would finally address long-standing standards-compliance issues in its planned version 7 upgrade.
Microsoft last week came out with a test, or "beta" version, of its Windows Vista operating system and IE 7.
Wilson said the broad range of Acid2's demands made it more of a "wish list" than a "compliance test."
"As a wish list, it is really important and useful to my team, but it isn't even intended, in my understanding, as our priority list for IE7," Wilson wrote.
The Web Standards Project responded positively to the announcement, hailing Microsoft's standards to-do list and its openness in acknowledging the test.
"While it doesn't hit everything we might like, and we won't see most of it until Beta 2, it's a pretty impressive list for a release that by all accounts is primarily about security and UI features," Web Standards Project member Chris Kaminski wrote. "Even more impressive than the contents of the list, though, is that it's even available outside the Redmond campus. Having been through this 'work with Microsoft' thing once before in the late '90s, I can assure you this sort of openness is a radical departure from the Microsoft of old and as good a reason as any for optimism that this is just the beginning, and we can expect even more and better in IE 7.5 and beyond."
The Web Standards Project launched seven years ago to goad Microsoft and Netscape into heeding W3C recommendations. These days, the group takes a less confrontational approach than it used to, working closely with software companies like Macromedia and Microsoft before products are released.
Microsoft's competitors sounded a less forgiving note in responding to the news.
"I think they should take the time required to do this right," said Hakon Lie, chief technology officer of Opera Software in Oslo, Norway, who threw down the Acid2 gauntlet to Microsoft in a News.com column this spring. "We're not going to see another IE for another several years, and this is their chance to show that they really care about standards, as they've been saying. They've used so many years to create IE 7, they can take the extra month required to make it pass."
Lie said Opera was "very close" to passing Acid2. Apple Computer has already said that its Safari browser passes the test in preliminary builds. The Mozilla Foundation said it was committed to "full support" of Acid2 in its Firefox browser but did not say when it expected to pass the test.
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people. Web standards are just a 'wish list' for MS? And
compliance with those standards is not a priority item with MS?
Says a lot, doesn't it? "Damn the specifications, full speed ahead"
continues to be MS's battle cry.
Maybe if this latest bit of MS fog is treated as a positive event,
actual code improvement might eventiually show up.
Meanwhile, I will put IE 7 on my wish list with some miniscule
priority, like maybe zero? After all, I already have FireFox, Opera,
Camino, and Safari. So there just isn't much room left for IE 7,
even if Windows Uodate requires it.
people. Web standards are just a 'wish list' for MS? And
compliance with those standards is not a priority item with MS?
Says a lot, doesn't it? "Damn the specifications, full speed ahead"
continues to be MS's battle cry.
Maybe if this latest bit of MS fog is treated as a positive event,
actual code improvement might eventiually show up.
Meanwhile, I will put IE 7 on my wish list with some miniscule
priority, like maybe zero? After all, I already have FireFox, Opera,
Camino, and Safari. So there just isn't much room left for IE 7,
even if Windows Uodate requires it.
Do it or don't complain.
Do it or don't complain.
<<Lie said Opera was "very close" to passing Acid2. Apple Computer has already said that its Safari browser passes the test in preliminary builds. The Mozilla Foundation said it was committed to "full support" of Acid2 in its Firefox browser but did not say when it expected to pass the test.>>
In other words, neither the new Safari, Mozilla, or FireFox have passed this test either. It remains to be see which browsers are fully compliant once they are released in their final versions. Furthermore, it was not stated *which* tests IE7 will not pass. Simply stated, *none* of these new browsers are compliant as of today.
<<Lie said Opera was "very close" to passing Acid2. Apple Computer has already said that its Safari browser passes the test in preliminary builds. The Mozilla Foundation said it was committed to "full support" of Acid2 in its Firefox browser but did not say when it expected to pass the test.>>
In other words, neither the new Safari, Mozilla, or FireFox have passed this test either. It remains to be see which browsers are fully compliant once they are released in their final versions. Furthermore, it was not stated *which* tests IE7 will not pass. Simply stated, *none* of these new browsers are compliant as of today.
Can anyone ever make an intelligent comment about Microsoft without falling into the cliche hater category?
Can anyone ever make an intelligent comment about Microsoft without falling into the cliche hater category?
I don't paticularly feel the need to bash Microsoft over IE 7 since they stated their point better than I could. However I agree with another poster about companies not following standards better. It really does hurt everybody. It cost more money to develope websites that work in the different browsers. It lowers the potential for better websites.
Just because the W3C creates "recomendations" doesn't mean anybody has to use or follow them. We could all just standardize on IE and every browser could use them, but look how long it takes Microsoft to update IE with anything new and worthwhile. They can't even keep the format the same form program to program. This is why following a motivated group like the W3C is a much better idea.
Regardless I figure that IE will probably never fully support W3C standards or anybody elses for that matter, but I do think we will always see browsers that do. They may never knock Microsoft and IE off the top, but life will go on.
I don't paticularly feel the need to bash Microsoft over IE 7 since they stated their point better than I could. However I agree with another poster about companies not following standards better. It really does hurt everybody. It cost more money to develope websites that work in the different browsers. It lowers the potential for better websites.
Just because the W3C creates "recomendations" doesn't mean anybody has to use or follow them. We could all just standardize on IE and every browser could use them, but look how long it takes Microsoft to update IE with anything new and worthwhile. They can't even keep the format the same form program to program. This is why following a motivated group like the W3C is a much better idea.
Regardless I figure that IE will probably never fully support W3C standards or anybody elses for that matter, but I do think we will always see browsers that do. They may never knock Microsoft and IE off the top, but life will go on.
Yes, a balance needs to be struck, but remember that many people just want it simple and want it to work.
For instnace, here is me. I'm a systems administrator and in many cases I hate it when I got zillions of scripts, Java applets and ActiveX stuff popping about all over the place.
I only visit CNET news because I can view and perticipate without letting even one script or applet run! Visiting a site only to have to download this and that and the next-door-neighbours-wife (hmmmm... Maybe not the latter) just puts me off a web site all together.
Put it another way. I don't like http://www.odeon.co.uk/Odeon/home.html but I do like http://www.odeon.co.uk/pls/Odeon/Odeon_text.region_list
I am no way disabled, but navigating through the latter (text version) is a far more pleasent and less stressful experience.
That's my own personal opinion. If you don't like it tough! At the end of the day you can make the most flashy web site about, but if the audience don't like it then you've wasted all that time and effort.
Get the jist?
Yes, a balance needs to be struck, but remember that many people just want it simple and want it to work.
For instnace, here is me. I'm a systems administrator and in many cases I hate it when I got zillions of scripts, Java applets and ActiveX stuff popping about all over the place.
I only visit CNET news because I can view and perticipate without letting even one script or applet run! Visiting a site only to have to download this and that and the next-door-neighbours-wife (hmmmm... Maybe not the latter) just puts me off a web site all together.
Put it another way. I don't like http://www.odeon.co.uk/Odeon/home.html but I do like http://www.odeon.co.uk/pls/Odeon/Odeon_text.region_list
I am no way disabled, but navigating through the latter (text version) is a far more pleasent and less stressful experience.
That's my own personal opinion. If you don't like it tough! At the end of the day you can make the most flashy web site about, but if the audience don't like it then you've wasted all that time and effort.
Get the jist?
Lets hope that MS doesn't hold off on the IE 7.1 release for years too and that after they've fixed as much of the security problems they can in this release that the next release is dedicated to fixing IE's deplorable "standards" compliance and not the latest new fad at the Redmond campus which have been the driving force behind earlier IE releases.
Lets hope that MS doesn't hold off on the IE 7.1 release for years too and that after they've fixed as much of the security problems they can in this release that the next release is dedicated to fixing IE's deplorable "standards" compliance and not the latest new fad at the Redmond campus which have been the driving force behind earlier IE releases.
- No way!
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by CharlesJo.com
August 2, 2005 10:52 PM PDT
- MS is building proprietary stuff that will give them leverage in the software and related business? OMG.
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